Ben and Sue talk to special guest, Professor John Neumann, on his awesome marketing journey. They dive into John’s purpose and how he is able to balance teaching, consulting, and running a small business.
You don’t want to miss his inspiring story!
We appreciate you coming on the show John.
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Sue: Hello and welcome fellow Awsomologists to Awsomology. I'm Sue.
Ben: And I'm Ben. And in this episode, we're welcoming John Newman the Fifth, assistant professor at Viterbo University, marketing consultant, and co owner of Wrench and Roll in La Crosse, Wisconsin. Welcome, John.
John: Hey. Good morning. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
Sue: Well, we are really glad you're able to join us today, and I need to- before we get into what I think is gonna be a great conversation with you, just based on the two minutes that we have talked already before we started recording. I need to send a special shout out, to one of your former students and our teammate, Nick Mulovrh, for getting us connected. I know he thinks the world of you Studying under you, and it's so much fun hearing about the things he learned studying under you, and he was really excited to get you connected. And he edits the podcast. So he at least will hear this part of it and know that we're all wishing him well.
John: Outstanding.
That makes me very happy to hear that he'll have to spend time, again, listening to me beyond the multiple hours that he sat in classes in eight AMs and interning underneath me. Yes. A special shout out to you, Nick.
Wonderful.
Sue: So why don't you start off by just telling us a little about your background, whatever you wanna share, and what led you, to where you are and what you're doing today.
John: Yeah. I appreciate a good broad open ended question. I'm trying to think where do I start. I will acknowledge that I think for a good portion of you know, through high school and graduating, I was a bit of a rudderless ship.
I never really kind of knew.
I didn't really have a calling. I didn't really have an idea.
I always knew that I enjoyed being creative, and I definitely have some, like, creative chaotic energy, like one too many thoughts scattered in a million directions of of what could this be. And I always, yeah, I always caught myself daydreaming and wondering, and and I knew that that was kind of a core piece of of who I am and and what maybe eventually I could create a strength of my own ass. But, I came to, La Crosse, Wisconsin pretty much by chance. I had a dear friend of mine who was going to get or going to go to UWL.
At the same time, she was kind of prodding me. You know? John, have you, applied for college? Have you done your ACT? And I was like, no. But I probably should.
And it just happened that I was, like, looking. I have an aunt that lives here in La Crosse, and, she was going to the state school, which I was like, I probably don't know if I can get into UWL.
But I was looking at my options here, and I found Viterbo. I had no idea what I wanted to do at Viterbo, but I read through and I saw and, yeah, eventually wound up here.
Spent four years really figuring out and finding myself and, I guess, finding my rudder of, like, where in which direction.
Initially started with general business, got into marketing, really got excited. I mean, to think back to that time, it was probably around two thousand fourteen, so when, really, social media was taking off.
We were seeing this transition from, you know, just the the images and posts to video starting to come out. Snapchat had just been launched.
And it really felt like, to me, a place where you could try. Right? The the when we look at content and how ephemeral it really is, right, it's here one day and gone. So if if we make a little mistake, we try something and it doesn't totally work, it felt like a really interesting kinda creative space to play in.
I eventually graduated from Viterbo and started at, Organic Valley, which is local here in Lafarge and Cashton.
I started answering phones, really focusing on our customer service. So I had friends all over the place that were calling me for coupons and giving me feedback on products. And, oh, yeah, it was it was brand.
And then after about six months, I transitioned into a social media coordinator position.
I was, I was, in that role and kind of different, iterations of that role and eventually being a social media manager. So I was with Organic Valley for about four years. In the meantime, I had gotten my MBA back at Viterbo again. I have a way of saying that, Viterbo kinda has me hooked.
I can't quite shake it now.
After Organic Valley, I started teaching here full time.
And, yeah, while I was at Organic Valley, I got to travel and meet all of our wonderful farmers, not all, but a good portion of them. I traveled all over the the country from the East Coast to the West Coast, live streaming, interviewing, working with our content development team to share the good work that we were doing. And, again, really being able to explore and try and sometimes fail. But, surprisingly, a lot of times, it was, you know, still kind of the wild west of social, but incorporating those learnings.
So-
Sue: Mhmm.
John: I've been teaching for a while now. This is my fourth year.
On top of, like, a little side, consulting work that I do, my brother and I last year, we were just about to celebrate our one year of ownership, took over a bike shop here in La Crosse.
So I was just spending my morning actually, reviewing new products that we're gonna get into the store, really trying to narrow down our brand and our identity. So what what can we have in shop to to help mirror, like, the the vibe that we're trying to curate?
Yeah. It's a little blurb.
Sue: That's it. That was a great blurb. Yeah. And I I resonate so entirely with that idea of chaotic energy being being able to channel that into marketing. Like, that That is, in a big bad way. I I feel that John.
John: I'm glad. I'm glad.
I'm glad somebody gets it because, yeah, it's it's it's a gift and a curse.
Ben: Yeah.
Well, I mean, you know, I'm sure there's other specialties that have similar, advantages or maybe some freedoms that come with certain channels like social media where you can kinda treat it like a sandbox every now and then, you know, and learn some things, try some things, be comfortable with something not working. You know? And there's there's other stuff in marketing where I think you kinda have to look at some things in that way where, hey. You know, we we've got everything that we, are prepared, to do or share based on what we think might work, and we also know that it might not. You know? And that's okay.
John: Mhmm.
Ben: You know, there's, there's other professions speaking of my preferences and, organized chaos that we might experience that I think I thrive in.
There's other careers and specialties where maybe that same freedom isn't there, and that would not be a place for me. You know?
John: Nope. I I learned very quickly. I think it was my first internship in college. I was technically underneath, like, a marketing umbrella, but I was, doing, like, pricing analyst or analyzing prices and cost.
And I learned very quickly that I was like, you know, not just all of marketing, but, yeah, a very specific part that I think I would do well in. Yeah. Spreadsheets and numbers. I mean, I can crunch, but not preferably.
Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.
Well, between teaching and consulting and bike shop, I mean, you got a lot going on, which sounds super exciting. How do you balance it all?
John: That's a very good question. If you would ask-
Ben: Do you balance it all?
John: Yeah. Probably not all too well.
It's definitely I feel like I'm at a a point of, like, where the flower has bloomed, and now I gotta figure out, like, what are gonna be the the healthiest petals. Right? I need to really that's a challenge in myself too. Right?
Acknowledging my kinda chaotic nature of, making sure, like, I I've always had this ambition of, like, I love the idea of opportunity. I love the idea of trying and exploring and new, but I'm also as I get a little bit further into my career and as I'm getting closer to thirty now, I'm like, okay. Like, what what have I reflected on? What's been really good?
What is filling me up extrinsically? So dollar wise, like, with something you can help those remaining student loans, but also intrinsically too. Like, what what makes you smile? What makes, like, you know, that, like, that warm feeling of, whether it's, you know, we're at the shop and we're helping out, folks in need or when I'm at school and I see, like, a light bulb moment or I get an email from somebody who says, you know, graduated, landed a job.
Like, those are the things that I feel. So I think it's just yeah. It it's tough. I've been having to do a lot of that reflection yeah, what do I need to start prioritizing?
Because, yeah, it's it's it's easy to say yes. It's, for me, incredibly hard to say no, but I'm definitely value or understanding the importance of that.
It's, I feel also that over the last few years, I I've used the metaphor of, like, if you take the picnic blanket and you kinda, like, shake it and everything flies up in the air, and then I was very much all my plates and food and everything was up, but now it's finally really beginning to land in a really beautiful spot. I think with all the parts and pieces that I have going, through, you know, chance and through a little bit of, like, thought and planning, everything is kind of feeding itself. It's become, like, a very nice little cyclical nature of, with the shop, I'm able to have internship positions and part time positions for current students that are looking for work. Through my consulting, I'd be able to bring in, examples, projects, even, again, internship positions for my students.
And I'm able also to still nurture that, like, again, the creative side of trying and staying up to date and learning too, right, of, like, what are the of the clients, of the projects that I wanna work on, which are gonna be the ones that are gonna be the most fun and I'm really gonna be able to invest myself in.
Ben: I love that. It's out you know, it's interesting how talking about or putting the question out there about how you balance it instead of responding with, well, I spend x amount of time at the bike shop. I spend x amount of time. You know, this is, like, mathematical balance that might bring peace of mind to some. The balance you talk about is creative fulfillment, inspiration, providing opportunities for others, and and being open to, you know, the chance that's involved in all of that too. And that may be in forming where your priorities lie or what you're doing right now that that's, you it sounds healthy. You sound so healthy right now.
Sue: Yeah.
John: I feel like I've gotten to a place of very healthy. I will say I was definitely in a reactive state for a long time, especially, you know, taking over a business, learning how to teach. Like, those are are skills that I was not entirely equipped with.
I would say I'm great at forming relationships. I'm great at getting to know people. But with jobs like being a professor, am I excellent at grading? I mean, yes.
I will grade well. Will I do it always on time? No. Right? These things that do require me to be on that other side of the spectrum, right, I've really had to challenge and figure out.
Right? There is some structure. I know with myself that, I'm becoming a little bit more proactive than reactive. So it's interesting too just knowing myself and the different kind of energy levels I have throughout the day.
So, like, for me, it's been a lot of, where where is my, I guess, I was gonna think of, like, my brain as a computer. Like, my highest computing power is definitely in the morning. So what are the tasks that I need to do that are gonna really kind of drain me or tax me and are gonna require, like, a ton of focus?
Because I know towards the end of the day, once I've started talking to a bunch of people in my lectures or responding to emails, Like, all I wanna do is go walk around in my backyard and, like, with the birds and Yeah.
Water my house plants and do those kinds of things. So it's been it's it's, like, intense structure, but, yeah, I I wouldn't say I'm I'm very like, today, I'll be at the bike shop from here to here, and it's it's kinda up here, but it's never on paper.
Ben: Yeah.
Sue: Well, I do I have to say, though, that speaking as somebody who's sort of who's sort of I hate to say this even. On the other end of that journey-
John: Mhmm.
Sue: Like, in my career, I think it took me and a lot of the people around me a long time to get to the point where you're at to be thinking, like, what are the things that fill my cup? What are the things that drain my cup?
How do I balance so that I end every day with something left in my cup?
John: Mhmm.
Sue: You know? I think you you usually see people particularly as they are, like, in that mid twenties up to thirty range saying, like, I'm I'm just gonna give it.
I'm gonna give every every single thing I have and, like, and then burn out.
John: Yeah. Yeah.
Sue: Have have a mid, like, midlife crisis at thirty two.
John: I like to say that I had, like, a quarter life crisis at twenty five.
Sue: Okay. Okay.
John: Very much you know, leading in the early twenties. I don't know. It was kind of a terrible quote that I had heard. But, again, like, it was a little rudderless, so I was trying to figure out what I should be doing, again, with foresight and planning not being one of my ultimate strengths.
So, like, okay. I got a decade of time here. What am I doing? And I think the quote was like, grind in your twenties, mind in your thirties, unwind in your forties.
And I was like, okay. That sounds good. I'll just I got the energy now. I can I can grind through it?
I can take on as much. I can try to invest as much. And, yeah, that that didn't last long. It, I would say right on, yeah, probably twenty five, twenty six of saying yes way too much, trying to be way too ambitious.
Even where I was at with Organic Valley, and I was working a ton. I was commuting a ton, and that's where I think I really started to realize, like, I had hit kind of a a slump and a part of like, oh, man. We talked about that cup... It was pretty much always empty.
I wasn't able to go to the gym. I wasn't able to to find a piece of my mornings because I was always just go go go go go. And, I mean, I'm still pretty go go go, but not nearly as right. It's it's waning.
I promise.
Ben: Mhmm. Yeah.
Sue: Yeah. Well and if you are devoting energy to things that energize you Mhmm. I think it's much more sustainable.
John: Yes.
Sue: It's it's when there are things that are draining you that it becomes unsustainable.
John: Yep. Yep. Yeah. And sometimes it's really hard to notice the things that are draining you.
Sue: Right?
John: True.
They're the things that, like, are are a fire that constantly needs to be put out. Right? So we're we're just trying to fixate on, like, completing it. Yeah. It's so it's definitely taken a lot of reflection back.
Sue: Yeah. I'm also really fascinated when you're talking about this balance between creative fulfillment and, accomplishing the thing the more high level things that you're trying to do and, the fulfillment that comes with that. And particularly, because that is a conversation Ben and I have an awful lot. So we have a seven person marketing team. He is the executive director. I report to him. So we spend a lot of time in administration, people, business development mode.
And he's a designer, and I'm a writer.
So it we're creative people spending a lot of our time not in a creative space and constantly having conversations about, how we can get more people in that creative space and, you know, really functioning to a high level...
John: Mhmm.
Sue: When I think at at least for me, and I won't speak for Ben, but at my core, there's a voice in my head that says but, also, I I think I'd rather just do that.
That that's a lot more fun for me than-
John: Mhmm.
Sue: You know, meeting with employees to talk about performance.
John: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. As you ascend higher. Yeah. And you kinda get further away from the actual, like, creation of the good and work that's being done.
Yeah. That's yeah, I understand that feeling of, you know, having to step back and of, like, even for simple things of, I have students or interns that'll help me with creating assets for us to post on social, and and it's really hard for me sometimes not to wanna get in there and, like, oh, let me cut this up and sync and, oh, I'd arrange it this way. Right? Nope.
I'm helping I'm helping them grow. Right now, they're become the where, again, it would be way more fun for me to spend forty five minutes doing that, but it's like, oh, nope.
I should probably be budgeting, or I should probably be doing something with taxes or stuff that isn't super, super fun.
Yeah.
Sue: Right. Grading papers on time.
Maybe.
John: Right.
That too.
Sue: So speaking of your students, I'm really interested in the time that you've been working, with marketing students at Viterbo. Mhmm. What do you think and this could maybe this is a tough question. Maybe it's an easy question.
What would you say is the most important lesson somebody learning marketing in school needs to know before they go out to the workforce?
John: Wow. That is a really good question.
Yeah.
I- gosh. I'm trying to think of the things that are just popping into my mind.
I think, gosh, for some reason, the word that I'm, coming up to so far is, like, having confidence.
Maybe more so and not just in our abilities and skills, but making sure that if you are coming up with an idea, if you're coming up with a strategy, if you're, right, making a social media campaign, right, you've done the research that that validates your thoughts and ideas. And I think a lot of times that what I've really had to introduce to students is like, yes. Your ideas are great, but somebody above you is gonna wanna have proof that this idea is real, or they're gonna they're gonna be detached from the media that you're working platform, the algorithm, content preferences. They're not gonna know consumption habits of the target market or the folks you're trying to reach to.
So making sure that, one, you're investing your time in school to really refine the tactical tech or tasks of you know, if it is copywriting. And it's also too becoming aware of things that are coming to kind of help and hinder us, right, with AI. Right? That's something this semester that I've really seen kind of change the way I teach.
I've been kind of referring it to as, AI is almost like I feel like, alcohol to underagers, right, where where it's something that I don't wanna hold away and put as this, like, big scary thing that you better not touch until, like, you're old enough to be able to handle it.
But, really, yeah, having, like, seeing this as a tool for for opportunity and inspiration, But, really yeah. So having the confidence in I've tried the thing. I've done the homework. I've done the research. I know what I'm talking about. And then having confidence in your idea. Like, right, if if we're in this like, if you think it's something good, I I I I see especially with students that are coming through now.
I mean, we have kind of some of the the post repercussions of COVID, of online teaching, right, where there's a lot of too even just simply creating dialogue in class. It's really, really tough. Right? We don't have the confidence to speak up.
We're not familiar with. We we also see, like, the negative impacts of social media that has had, like, this population or group. Right? We're bombarded with, images, thoughts, feelings of how we should be.
Like, there's this group definitely, I think, is is really in an interesting space of how they've been affected. So I guess from my ramble and rant and my own reflection, I think it's that piece of, yeah, just trying to to be sure of yourself and your ideas and and having the research to back it.
Sue: That has to be it has to be much harder for a young marketer to come out into a space where it's sort of maybe in the last I don't know-
In my personal experience, five to ten years, we've suddenly realized, oh, you're not, you know, if you're marketing for a business, you're not just- your competition is not just the other business that does the same thing.
John: Mhmm.
Sue: It's Coke. It's Nike. It's Adidas, which apparently is how you say that.
John: Yeah.
Sue: It it's everybody.
Now now my competition, you know, particularly when we're talking social media, online ads, things like that, My competition has a ton more money, more resources, more capacity.
And now suddenly, I think it would be tempting for someone to look at someone coming first into the field to look at that and say, well, I, you know, I can't- I'm not going to- I didn't come up with the next Got Milk or Just Do It or whatever it was today.
So I'm a failure as a marketer.
John: Yeah.
Yeah. It's, right, our competition isn't just the brands we're competing with, but it's the the meme pages, the the influencers who are, you know, portraying this ideal self that our target market wants to be that, like, is really creating relevant and valuable content. Right? And it's it's really interesting how we've seen, you know, like, our message or our marketing definition, creating and communicating, message of value.
Right? Understanding that, like, the way the brands can express value too has changed so much over the last I mean, especially the last ten to fifteen years where it's no longer just, you know, this product is going to help you with problem a, b, and c, but also, like, hey. We're we're not only a brand, but we're a person, and we know what your morning routine is like. And we know the products that you're using, and we know the people that you're going to to get inspiration, to get hacks, tutorials, things along those lines.
And it's really there's a I think it's kind of a cliche where we talk about, like, this marketing on social where, you know, we're at a cocktail party where we're tossing up ideas, we're offering topics, and it's become so much less about, I mean, really casual brand and product awareness versus, like, the strict, you know, pure vibes because our our audiences are becoming so inundated and really numb to to sales messages. So having to be really thoughtful and creative about that value. And it really is also too just like a simplification.
Ben: Yeah. You, you briefly touched on AI. And by the way, I love the alcohol analogy. That that's one that I hadn't really heard before, but, I mean, we've all heard the horror stories, right, of people that, you know, were really kind of, like, shielded from it growing up, and then all of a sudden, they turned twenty one and holy smokes.
They don't know, you know, what it is, what to do with it, how to you know, all that.
So, totally can see the same thing happening with AI. Right? Like, if you completely ignore it or you're shielded from it when you do need to use it, you know, it can probably feel a little bit like crack. I'm like, I just need to use chat GPT for everything.
John: Yeah. I I I had one example this previous semester of a student got in a pinch. They weren't putting enough time into their final presentation or their final report, had never used ChatGPT, had heard about it. It was kinda like, oh, this is a godsend to, like, help me in this moment. But, really, what ended up happening is it's I mean, I'm sure you've used it before, and we understand that it's it it's pretty, it's pretty easy to identify if you've seen it in enough time, like, in terms of formatting, the sentence structure. And the student had gone up and gotten a ChatGPT output for their final presentation where I mean, we have been working an entire semester on this project, and they get up for their recommendations.
And it was extremely vague, had no applicability, and it was just, like, such a crash and burn where I was like, oh, oh, no. No. No. No.
Yeah.
Like, it could have helped us along the way to start piecing some of those conversations together, but, K.
Yeah. Where we see that all eggs in the basket, yeah, it did not always end well.
Ben: Yeah. Well, I feel like as prominent as AI has been in our world, as of late, we probably say this almost every episode. We could have another whole episode on AI, but that's not what we're here to talk about today.
So to awkwardly move us along...
John: Sure.
Ben: One of the one of the big projects we're working on this year is writing a book about purpose and marketing and coming from Viterbo, the only university in the nation, at least, that we're aware of that offers a master's degree in servant leadership.
John: Mhmm.
Ben: I imagine that your purpose is something you've considered over the years. What would you say is your purpose for doing what you do?
John: Boy. We're all about the big deep.
Yeah.
We don't- we don't- we're not gonna big echo here.
Yeah.
We're not making it easy on on you today, John.
What is what is my purpose?
Tell us the purpose of life while you're at it.
Just why? We're just saying why.
Man, I would say for me, just through the lens of, I guess, Viterbo and, being a professor is, I had mentioned when I first came to Viterbo, I really didn't have an idea of who or what I was trying to become. I'd left a really big school. I was a pretty small fish. I hadn't really found my people, and I came to to a school. And I was like, oh, I get to be whoever I want. Right? I didn't really know I didn't really embrace who I was versus, like, oh, I'm I'm gonna do what I need to to fit in, and I got caught up in a lot of really bad just kinda habits and groups and just was not embracing or accepting of myself at all.
And I had a few professors here that not only noticed that I wasn't showing up as myself, but also had saw some of the really big kind of ripple effects that that had caused for me. Right? I was really living in an authentic life. I wasn't super happy. I had had, like, a pretty hard time for a little while.
I had lost my community. I was just not in a good space, and I had people here who rose up and just did simple things like, I wasn't eating a ton. Right? And I I was so distracted with everything else that was kind of imploding in my work and or in my life, and I had a professor who would bring me, like, to our our, Monday night classes, would bring me a meal.
Right? Like, would slide me a sandwich, would do what she could just to, like, offer that that olive branch. I had professors who taught me how to to meditate and to contemplate because I didn't know how to process and figure out. And I also had people to kind of shake me and be like, hey.
You've got potential. You've got ability. You've got skill. You're not in a space mentally, physically to embrace that, but it's kind of, like, a reminder of, like, I still have the reins.
So I had a lot of mentorship. I had a lot of just really people here that are still here that I work alongside of now that, I guess, were I'll, yeah, they were, a life raft when I didn't really knew know that I needed one.
So being able to go back to a spot and for those folks that are really struggling or, like, I see the potential in helping, obviously, I can't solve all their problems. I can't I can't grab the reins, but it really, really helps me. I again, let me talk about that intrinsic, like, good piece. Like, when I see somebody who is going through similar things, like, on different skills and different sizes, like, being a resource, Not that I ever wanna be, like, a parent and say, like, you need to clean up your act, but it I can provide those tools and say, like, hey.
I see. I notice.
Like, maybe we try to, like, incorporate or get those skills back. So I think for me, it's definitely about the growth. It's definitely about, and also too, like, I I feel like I just need to give back and to to have a job where I can make an impact, I can brighten somebody's day, I can help them grow and start creating a path forward for themselves, like I had people do for me, is really just kinda what keeps me here in this role and position.
Ben: That's awesome. I love the reciprocity of it. Right? Like, that your your desire to give back, that's that's pretty cool and the fact that you're delivering on it. So kudos to you, man.
John: It's yeah. It's it's hard to find work that makes you feel good. I mean, there's a lot of days where it's like, do I wanna get up and teach in eight AM? But then you hear the little bubbles of conversation in classroom, and I see the excitement in somebody telling me about their, bowling competition or, like, just, yeah, just being a person for somebody else. So it feels very good.
Sue: And and it sounds like it, it really scratches sort of that itch that marketing itch of connecting with people, finding the thing that, that will connect with them, that will, influence or, you know, help them in their life.
And it's an extension maybe for you, right -
John: Absolutely.
Sue: Of that connection.
John: Yeah. Marketing and the marketing I teach gets to be kind of, it's clearly, like, the main outcome, but everything else is, like, a really positive, product of all that work too. Like, yes. I love totally nerding out about about trends and catching attention and making, you know, very good, immersive lectures.
But, yeah, at the end of the day, for me, yeah, it's it's a connection piece. I feel really good when I'm able to connect. And doing it through something that comes instinctively and kinda natural to me, right, I I would say that as much as I am chaotic, but, also, I do have a very, like, systematic or at least the way I see things, I don't know. Like, like, there are things that just make sense to me, but math equations, definitely not.
But systems, how things work together, what feeds what to get what, what what stone can I throw to make the splash to make a ripple that hits here? Like, those things, like, sequentially make sense for me, and marketing just in that way kind of clicked.
Sue: Mhmm.
Johns: Right? Like, I'm gonna do this, which will hopefully get people to do this, which in return will give us this, like, the domino. That sequential kind of thing makes sense to me.
Sue: Yeah. I - that yes. And I think, there are definitely people outside, outside of the marketing world that would look at that and that those sequences, they are harder for them to imagine.
That that that it's not the simple we do this, you know, you mentioned that thing, the sales ad. We create a sales ad. People get so excited because, I don't know, because our price is really good, and that does the thing.
John: Mhmm.
Sue: Right? And that's the sequence Yeah. I think people understand, but, you know, when when you do have maybe a mind that pulls back further than say, oh, you know, here are there are multiple steps to this thing. This is a relationship, not a transaction.
John: Mhmm.
Sue: And yeah. Yeah.
John: Absolutely.
Ben: Bringing us back to that sandblocked- sandbox analogy, right, that we marketers get to play in and, you know, maybe test and experiment and have some fun. I I like the it's just all about the analogies today and the the the throwing the stone and creating the ripples, you know, because that can be calculated. That can be part of a system even though Absolutely. You're not throwing the rock at an exact target, but you're throwing it somewhere that you know the ripples will affect the thing that you're trying to do, you know. And that's I I can totally see how that is inspirational and empowering and things like that to folks like us that can think and see that. And I can also see how it could be incredibly frustrating to someone who's like, no. I want the four step plan for how you're gonna put an ad out there, and it's gonna sell my thing.
You know what I mean?
Which sometimes just does not exist.
Jon: Mhmm. Yeah. That definitely the devil's advocate side of, like, yes. Good idea. But where's the scripture?
Where are the deliverables? What are the outcomes and expectations? Like, okay.
True. Good point.
Ben: Yeah.
John: Yeah. I think that that that chance kind of lights the inner thrill seeker of me of, like, oh, we get to try something. We see. Like, I don't always know what the ripple will be, but I have a good good feeling or at least from what I've learned and what I've seen, it'll be a good good outcome.
Right. Yeah. Mhmm.
Sue: Right.
I like I always like to think of it as, like, the puzzle of the thing. How am I going to how do I solve this complex equation that is not just numbers but involves suddenly, we're bringing people into an equation and Mhmm. People's reactions to to things. It's yeah. Yep.
John: I'm currently we're we're teaching this or this week, and I'm teaching a principal's marketing course this semester, and we're just really diving into consumer behavior. And and that is one of my favorites one of my favorite chapters or at least pieces to talk about because we are so complex, and we are oftentimes, you know, the way we think or would expect to act is nowhere near how we really do. And it's really fun to get the students now to, like, reflect backwards and say, like, oh, yeah. But why did you buy that?
Sue: Mhmm.
John: And, you know, and I keep probing with the why. Why? But why? But why? And I get someone who would like to stop and thought, and, well, I didn't really think about it like that. I'm like, yeah. We don't usually.
Sue: Well, we are we are coming to an end here, John. We're coming near the end. But before we move into our wrap up, what are other things? I guess this is a good spot for plugs. This is a ham handed way to do it.
Our transitions are terrible. But what are other things that you're involved in? What are things you want people to know about, get a get connected to?
Anything like that.
John: Yeah. I would, I guess I'm just gonna steal this moment and, invest or use it for some of my own personal hobbies and passions. I think..
Sue: Do it.
John: My my nerdiest things that I really enjoy, which, you know, I think more people would find joy in and could invest in without even having to do a bunch of input is, native plant species and native, pollinator gardens and restoration.
In terms of, like, keeping me sane and keeping my cup filled and providing myself an outlet of, like, joy and inspiration.
I love my garden, and I love, I have a little two acre plot that I'm, we're working my partner and I are working to restore and create a native prairie, and I can't express the amount of joy, happiness that I get. Like, I think about the two people that I wanna make proud of my life is, you know, my eight year old self and my eighty year old self. That that eight year old self was a total dork and loved bugs and loved the creek in my backyard, and he is so happy when I get home from the end of the day. And I can wander back there, and I can see, you know, the swallowtail butterfly that's coming through or a hawk moth. And and, and it's and it's such a beautiful activity to, like, ground myself in the moment too because every time that I go out there on my b ball, you know, what little bug is buzzing?
I'm very anti grass and very anti lawn, and I wish more people could get, you know, a few just a tiny little bed in your front yard or in your backyard and, like, have the nice little routine of, oh, what's out there today? What what am I, contributing or adding to the world around me? Because, yeah, it's it's a really silly thing, but I think back to, like, what I'm most excited about is now spring is coming, and and all my my buds are gonna start popping up. And I encourage everybody as much as we can to, like, take off your socks and walk in the backyard and and just and have a moment of, you know, leave the phone inside and, yeah, just remind yourself that we're a part of something way bigger, and that is you know?
And you can find those ties by being well, at Viterbo, one of our core values is stewardship. Be a good steward. Connect yourself to the world around you. And as much as we can get lost, right, I'm I'm constantly in this, like, sphere of business and this kinda, you know Mhmm.
Structure that we've created. But also, yeah, like, find a little thing that's gonna get you outside, that's gonna help you connect and see your impact and not just, I mean, like, our societal realm or lens, but also just to to the natural world around us. That's one of my big, big, big favorites.
Sue: John, listen here.
I I you don't know it, but, you're never- now you're going to be bothered by me for a long time. I have a quarter acre.
John: Yes.
Sue: It is, only it's fifty percent landscaped grass.
John: Mhmm.
Sue: And it- and that landscaped grass is only thirty years old.
So in my head, it would be super simple for me to let it revert to prairie.
Like, it would I think about fifty percent of it, if I just stopped-
John: Mhmm.
Sue: Between what I'm doing and let it and made sure it had water.
Within two years, it would be its own thing.
John: You would be surprised how Yeah. That and that's just in it too is, yeah, I've only lived at my home for for three years. And where it's been to where it is now by, you know, stopping mowing, like, the things that have just been hiding dormant, like, under words that have just popped up out of nowhere. And that's and that's such a fun surprise too because it's, like, every spring, like, what's gonna show up?
John: But, yes, I I will send you seeds.
Sue: I will I'll let you know.
Please. Yes. I love it.
John: Totally encouraged. Yeah. There's a great resource.
Prairie Moon Nurseries, in Minnesota has, like, a beautiful little, catalog that one of my dear friends puts together, but awesome plants that are all locally, collected. And, yes, definitely, please feel free to reach out.
Sue: You're my guy for that. Okay.
John: But I will try my best. And if I don't know, I'll connect you to people who will. But it is yeah. It's totally worth it.
Sue: Love it. Okay. Well, now I've gotten something that I really needed out of this conversation.
Ben: John kinda got the jump on it. So if you have another one, that's okay. But this is where we wrap the show up talking about, recommendations, something we've seen, heard, or experienced that we wanna share with the world. So we've already got, we got a jump start on Nomo May here. We know what's going on, so this is perfect.
But I'll I'll kick us off by this, I'll we'll share a link to a cool article about, how the NFL, during the Super Bowl, leaned on some solar energy to power, the big event. Right? So, Allegiant Stadium, the new Las Vegas Raiders stadium that was built a few years ago and is now now hosted the Super Bowl this year. It was, one hundred percent solar powered. The whole event that happened at the stadium, which, you know, obviously, massive sporting event. Lots of people. Lots of power.
Not only, like, the construction of the building, and how it, is powered by a really efficient roof that makes air conditioning, less, you know, less of a burden for a building of its size and everything. And then on top of it, all of it being powered by something like six hundred thousand solar panels, just, like, amazing to think of the scale of that, but, pretty cool for an event like that to be, you know, powered, by the sun.
So, the link shares a whole bunch of other geeky data and, talks about how it was all made possible and everything. But I think, just a cool example of how something that, you know, traditionally has probably been a huge resource suck, right, for, forever and ever, whether it's electricity or water or whatever, to show that while it might not be perfect yet, you know, there's at least steps being taken to make some of those things less of a, invasion on the Earth's resources and stuff. So just a really cool cool story there. So we'll share the link to that if anyone wants to geek out on how it was all made possible.
Sue: Well and and thank god it kept Taylor Swift cool, which was really-
Ben: Exactly.
Sue: What we were all very worried about.
Ben: Yeah. So They're initially thinking yeah. They were thinking five hundred solar five hundred thousand solar panels, but then when they heard she was gonna be like, okay. Let's install some more. We wanna make sure the AC doesn't break down.
Sue: She's in her cool era right now, and so we need to keep her where she needs to be.
Wonderful.
Ben: John, do you have another one?
I guess I, that was on my list of homework to do was to find something specific, but now I'm like, oh, shoot. But, on topic of what you're talking about, I was just thinking about what are good things that are happening in my world, what brands am I still proud to to support and be a part of. And I mentioned Organic Valley.
You know, there's a huge argument a lot of the times when I I remember, even even just working our customer service, why pay so much more for milk. Right? We see it in dairy in general as a really volatile market, but the work that they're doing now can continue to have been doing for the last, over twenty years that they've been together, as a cooperative. They're doing a ton. They just made an announcement, working with organic dairy farmers to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
They're doing a ton of projects to make sure that they're competing or keeping families on their farms.
Right, we're seeing a huge, shift in the market just from dairy production in our, we're losing so, so many family farms, and they're doing incredible work. And every dollar that goes towards that cooperative, you know, spending a little bit extra for my heavy whipping cream, for my milk, for my other my cheese and other things that my Wisconsin heart just needs so dearly. They're an incredible company that's doing a lot of really good work that I really owe a lot of my professional kickoff from. And I would say even just checking out their their news and their other girls, they were just in the New York Times or excuse me.
They were in New York. Trying to remember. Times Square. They did a takeover. We're doing a little look in my class later on this week about what they had done and the awareness that they're creating.
So they're a really cool brand that's doing a lot of really, inspiring work. One of my dearest friends and greatest mentors, Jacqueline Carden, is the, the VP of marketing there, and I look up to her so often. And she's really as I look at somebody who's doing work that's making a big splash, I would check out, all the exciting things that they're doing right now.
Sue: Nice. Well and because they're cooperative, we we come from credit union people, so we are all on board with that cooperative model and what that can do to help people.
John: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Sue: Love it. Well, I'm gonna switch gears and get us over to, a little Disney plus action here and something I would recommend, particularly if you are Gen X. But maybe, you know, maybe you guys should watch it just because it's good, it's good homework for dealing with people like me.
We my husband and I came across a- it's an older documentary, it turns out, but it was, originally, I think originally History Channel documentary, but it's available on Disney plus right now. It's called x generation that changed the world.
And there's multiple different episodes going through sort of different facets of the experience of Gen X growing up and sort of where some of the where some of the attitude, around politics and music and, you know, just some of those formative things that happened. And, the the very first episode, which I think probably was very carefully crafted to appeal to Gen x.
They spent a lot of time talking about Nirvana.
John: Mhmm.
Sue: A personal favorite of mine, And, it just really excellent, really well done, not, and not precious about, about nostalgia, but a a really good sensible look at the conditions of the world, what people were reacting to. And so definitely would recommend x, the generation that changed the world, available on Disney plus near you. That's right.
John: I will definitely check that out because, you know, we even just see when I talk about target markets in class, where we talk about the millennials, we talk about Gen z, and we talk about the baby boomers.
Right? With this this Gen x, so oftentimes, like, they're they're a little bit more difficult to describe. Right? A lot of people are like, is it my parents?
Are they you know? Right? So and, really, just like a population of people, I mean, the first group to have, you know, a mom going to work or to have single parents and how all of this has influenced a lot of yeah. So I'll definitely have to check that out.
Sue: Yeah. And I I think the reason, you know, we we sort of refer to ourself as this forgotten generation, but it might be more accurate to to think about ourselves as, the generation that pioneered looking at generations the way we do and looking at those demographics.
So it's really easy. You know, it was such a focus, I think, for Gen X to say, well, how can we get how can we get our parents to get along with our, you know, people our kids' age in the workplace or, you know, all of these things? How can we talk to these people?
John: Mhmm.
Sue: And sort of overlooked ourselves.
John: Yeah.
Sue: But yeah.
And someday soon, we'll retire, and you won't have to worry about us, and that'll be fine.
Ben: We'll have to worry about you just in another way.
Sue: Yeah. Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah. That you you should check on us Right. And things. Make sure we're buying groceries and not eating cat food.
Ben: Exactly.
Sue: Well, thank you, John, so much for being with us. This was a great conversation, and you will hear from me again definitely because you're gonna hear all about my yard.
Yep. I will send pictures. I will Excellent. You my top ten need to have for for plants species and one of the, yeah, the prettiest and the most exciting, you know, you're gonna draw in the the coolest bugs you will you will definitely hear.
Sue: Love it. Love it.
And thank you to everyone listening as always.
Thank you for joining us. You can always catch up with us on your favorite podcast app or by finding all of our episodes at our blog at exclamation QSO dot dot com slash blog.
Ben: Thanks, Sue. Thanks again, John. Thanks, everybody, for tuning in. Be awesome, and we'll see you next time.
John: Thank you so much.
Ben: Thanks, John.
Sue: The Awsomology Podcast is a production of Exclamation Services.
Thanks to Nick Malovrh for sound production and Kylie Ganther for our cover artwork.
Ben: Executive producers are me, Ben Bauer, and my friend, Suzanne Campbell.